Bishop warns of no-go zones for non-Muslims
By Jonathan Wynne-Jones and Robyn Powell
The Telegraph
Last Updated: 4:29pm GMT 06/01/2008
Islamic extremists have created “no-go” areas across Britain where it is too dangerous for non-Muslims to enter, one of the Church of England's most senior bishops warns today.
The Rt Rev Michael Nazir-Ali, the Bishop of Rochester and the Church's only Asian bishop, says that people of a different race or faith face physical attack if they live or work in communities dominated by a strict Muslim ideology.
The Muslim Council of Britain today described his comments as “frantic scaremongering”, while William Hague, the shadow foreign secretary, said the bishop had “probably put it too strongly”.
Liberal Democrat leader Nick Clegg said the idea of no-go areas was “a gross caricature of reality”.
Writing in The Sunday Telegraph, Bishop Nazir-Ali compares the threat to the use of intimidation by the far-Right, and says that it is becoming increasingly difficult for Christianity to be the nation's public religion in a multifaith, multicultural society.
His comments come as a poll of the General Synod – the Church's parliament – shows that its senior leaders, including bishops, also believe that Britain is being damaged by large-scale immigration.
Bishop Nazir-Ali, who was born in Pakistan, gives warning that attempts are being made to give Britain an increasingly Islamic character by introducing the call to prayer and wider use of sharia law, a legal system based on the Koran.
In an attack on the Government's response to immigration and the influx of “people of other faiths to these shores”, he blames its “novel philosophy of multiculturalism” for allowing society to become deeply divided, and accuses ministers of lacking a “moral and spiritual vision”.
Echoing Trevor Phillips, the chairman of the Commission for Equalities and Human Rights, who has said that the country is “sleepwalking into segregation”, the bishop argues that multiculturalism has led to deep divisions.
David Davis, the shadow home secretary, has accused Muslims of promoting a kind of “voluntary apartheid” by shutting themselves in closed societies and demanding immunity from criticism.
In the Synod survey, to be published this week, bishops, senior clergy and influential churchgoers said that an increasingly multi-faith society threatens the country's Christian heritage and blamed the divisions on the Government's failure to integrate immigrants into their communities.
It found that more than one in three believe that a mass influx of people of other faiths is diluting the Christian nature of Britain and only a quarter feel that they have been integrated into society.
The overwhelming majority – 80 per cent – said that the Government has not upheld the place of religion in public life and up to 63 per cent fear that the Church will be disestablished within a generation, breaking a bond that has existed between the Church and State since the Reformation.
Calls for disestablishment have grown following research showing that attendance at Mass has overtaken the number of worshippers at Church of England Sunday services.
Bishop Nazir-Ali, whose father converted from Islam to Catholicism, was criticised by Ibrahim Mogra, of the Muslim Council of Britain. He said: “It's irresponsible for a man of his position to make these comments.
“He should accept that Britain is a multicultural society in which we are free to follow our religion at the same time as being extremely proud to be British. We wouldn't allow 'no-go' areas to happen. I smell extreme intolerance when people criticise multiculturalism without proper evidence of what has gone wrong.”
Religious membership in Britain: (See original article.)
But the Bishop's concerns are shared by other members of the General Synod.
The Rt Rev Nicholas Reade, the Bishop of Blackburn, which has a large Muslim community, said that it was increasingly difficult for Christians to share their faith in areas where there was a high proportion of immigrants of other faiths.
He believes that increasing pressure will be put on the Government to begin the process of disestablishment and end the preferential status given to the Church of England. “The writing is on the wall,” he said.
Gordon Brown relinquished Downing Street's involvement in appointing bishops in one of his first facts as Prime Minister – a move viewed by some as a significant step towards disestablishment.
Last night, Mr Davis said: “Bishop Nazir-Ali has drawn attention to a deeply serious problem. The Government's confused and counter-productive approach risks creating a number of closed societies instead of one open, cohesive one. It generates the risk of encouraging radicalisation and creating home-grown terrorism.”
Inayat Bunglawala, assistant secretary-general of the Muslim Council of Britain, said: “Bishop Nazir-Ali appears to be exercised by what he perceives as the decline in the influence of Christianity upon this country, but trying to frantically scaremonger about Islam and Muslims seems to us to be a rather unethical way of trying to reverse this.
“He talks about the rise of 'Islamic extremism' but fails to mention how some of the policies of our government and especially that of the United States in the Middle East over several decades now has clearly contributed to this phenomenon.”
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Related articles:
Leader: Britain has changed but its values must endure
Michael Nazir-Ali: Why extremism has flourished
Oxford Muslims want call to prayer
25 December 2007: Cardinal calls for UK to embrace immigrants
23 December 2007: Britain has become a 'Catholic country'
9 December 2007: Muslim apostates threatened over Christianity
6 November 2007: Young, British and part of terror plot
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The following are a few of the large number of comments made on this article:
Comments
Been like that for decades.
Just try a quick walk through the suburbs of Keighley at night if you want personal proof.
Best wear body armour, though.
Posted by David Walker on January 6, 2008 3:55 PM
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Reading the comments, 95% of those writing are seriously concerned over the state that England (Britain?) now finds iteslf in due to lax immigration laws which Blair and his cronies, craftily slipped in without most people realising what was going on. However, voters kept voting the traitor back in to power. Possibly it was the votes originating from the hundreds and thousands of undesirable Asian,African asylum and “other” seekers together with their extentended families, who did the damage?
Now, what to do? First,Blair should be tried for Treason. If found guilty, correct proceedure will be to shoot him at dawn! This should encourage and motivate others to face up to the reality that the only way to get the country back is to kick out the couple of million fanatical scheming undesirables who are currently happily abusing the genteel hospitality of the British. This could be a bit messy!However, that being achieved, the Brits will have their country back. There would also be a strong liklihood that many, who have previously left the United Kingdom in dispear and disgust, would return to give a helping hand!
Posted by Mervyn Peters on January 6, 2008 3:52 PM
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I wonder what bolt hole Bottler Brown ran for when the bishop spoke his mind. I understand he has them all over the country for just this sort of eventuality.
Posted by harry carter on January 6, 2008 3:47 PM
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Well said Bishop Nazi – Ali, when are the
politicians and so called leaders of the UK going
to get their heads out of the sand?
Posted by David F on January 6, 2008 3:47 PM
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Time to bite the bullet folks
vote (BNP) if you dont, you know what to expect in the future, and your childrens future,
if you think this is racist scarmongering, please take the time to visit some of Englands wonderful ethnic locations, commented on above and if you survive,it may change your liberal point of view.good luck.
Posted by blighty on January 6, 2008 3:43 PM
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We see the same problems in India, former hindu areas are now muslim dominated complete with mosques and loudspeakers calling the men out to prayer. People afraid to cross muslims as they're liable to use violence.
Consider this, there are now more muslims in India then Pakistan. And why was Pakistan created because the muslims couldn't live under hindu rule.
This is a worldwide problem.
Posted by Kris on January 6, 2008 3:42 PM
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i am unclear whether there is really any significant difference in the call to prayers using a voice projected through a loudspeaker and the ringing of a chime of bells on a Sunday. however, i do think that we are as a nation bending over too far to accommodate those that `would destroy our ways. a religion that does not evolve has to move to extremes to survive. the problem with Islam is that the bulk of the adherents are dirt poor and susceptible to the same sort of preaching that had thousands of ignorant peasants storming the holy Land in the 12th century. clealry the Muslims have not learned from that or do they want to. personally the sooner we remove dependency on middle east energy sources the better.
Posted by Ron Oliver on January 6, 2008 3:37 PM
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One of the greatest counties in the history of the world is now on its knees as a result of Britain-wide apathy and the lack of taking action. How many Britons have contacted their MP to complain and/or ask for an explanation of the obvious chaos throughout the land? Very few in my opinion. Where is the outcry for the actions of Gordon Brown? Sure, a few days of news articles and some MPs shooting off their mouths about no referendum, but where has that gotten them? Why has there been no “lack of confidence” vote in the Commons? Why haven't the decent people of Britain taken to the streets in protest? Not once, but until this government moves in the direction the majority want it to move. The people turn out for returning football teams. They congest the streets of London and stop traffic for World Cup winners, but they sit on their backsides watching the country fall apart rather than talk to the government representatives.
You have allowed a stated socialist over 10 years in office; watched the government endorse the EU; watch as the borders are all but gone; allowed every foreigner into the country who can get across the channel; allowed non-citizens the benefits of social programs which attract the lay-abouts from around the world, and then furnish them with houses paid for by the working British public. Is there something wrong with this picture? People of Britain, YOU DESERVE WHAT YOU GET. YOU DESERVE TO BE ABUSED BY YOUR GOVERNMENT BECAUSE YOU DON'T CARE ENOUGH TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT!
You complain in private, but do nothing in public to affect change. Gordon Brown knows this. That's why he continues to do what he pleases, even thought it is not what pleases you, the British Public.
“Rule Britania”….rubbish. Britania couldn't rule anything, not even themselves. Your apathy has turned Britain into a third class state of comedians and lager louts. How very sad.
Posted by H. WILLIAM WINSTANLEY on January 6, 2008 3:34 PM
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Sir, a cursory glance at the emails posted on this page are really rather troubling – they demonstrate without question the sheer level of hatred directed against muslims. The agument will go that they bring this on themselves – the chicken and egg comes to mind. The fact is that there are no-go areas in Engalnd. That they are controlled by Islamic extremists is utter nonesense. Anyone with an ounce of awareness of inner city areas will be only to aware of the problems caused by gangs running their 'areas' – has everyone conveniently forgotten the 30 or so 'postcode' murders of teenagers in the last year? There are indeed such areas – whites, blacks, muslims, chineese – there are no-go areas dominated by all these folks. The Bishop is well of the mark although his comments are hardly surpprising given his background of courting controversy and pandering to god knows who.
That there are muslims who do not 'integrate' is certainly correct; what is conveniently forgotten is that there are Jews, Hindus, Italians, Chinese…(the list goes on) who also do not 'integrate'.
What many readers seem not able to comprehend is the fact that if they belive in liberal democracy and the principles upon which this nation is founded, then it is every man's perogative to live his life how he choses within the bounds of the law and human decency. ANYONE who choses to live in this country must abide by the law.
And as for those who say that Islam preaches hate and intolerance – such people are guilty of gross ignorance. One simply can not judge a religion or belief system by the actions of a few of its adherants. Let us not forget that most of the heinous crimes since the birth of Christ have been in the name of Chritianity and Islam but almost exclusively, those who have waged such wars have done so out of greed nd the need for power.
As for values, it would be quite illuminating if someone could succinctly describe what British values actually are – and then perhpas we could judge how many white british folk and everyone else actually act by those values. My guess is that there are just as many from both groups who are guilty.
And to those referring to muslims as a cancer – the true cancer in our society is ignorance, a lack of respect, a disregard for others, sloth , gross useage of alcohol and drugs – these are the things that are destroying our communities, and all creeds and races are guilty of these sins.
I am a muslim. I am British and i am proud. I admire this great nation and its people (most of them). I vote, i pick up litter from the street, i give to charity, i sing carols, go to christmas partis, have friends of all colours and creed and have no wish or desire to see this nation become an Islamic state or anything else for that matter. The fact is just as there are those who do not want to integrate, there are just as many who do not wish for others to integarte and who go out of their way not to facilitate outsiders' integration. Shame on all those people.
Posted by S Khan on January 6, 2008 3:30 PM
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I heartily agree with Maura Collins. 2:22 PM and Soovey. The problems I see are various: an eroding of what's taken as British culture, the (to be lauded) British approach to allow people to do their own thing [providing that it doesn't impinge on others], the new religion of multiculturalism which has failed dismally, the determination of the Establishment not to recognise what is happening & to call a spade a spade & lastly, the agenda that comes with Islam – which is not a religion of peace as its apologists claim but one where one submits to Allah or else.
Well done to the Bishop for raising his voice; another problem is that whereas the Moslems know what they want & will get it, by hook or by crook. the Anglican Establishment is so weak & weary & its leader such a non-entity that it fails to do or say anything that might cause offence (-apart from castigating Left-wing targets such as the US, Israel etc).
I recommend that the Arch reads Jonathon Sack's latest book: “the Home we build together”. Oh – & there's the “moderate” MCB …….
Posted by M.Lester on January 6, 2008 3:30 PM
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Amidst all this mess, I think about the brave servicemen and women who gave their lives in two world wars to preserve our British values. culture and lifestyle.
In the 1960's and 70's the liberal left decided to open the floodgates of our borders. I am not wholly against immigrants – indeed I am in many ways 'for' them. For example, the many wonderful Indians who run successful restaurant businesses, learn our language and integrate into and enhance our society by providing a wonderful service. They are both sympathetic and responsive to our culture whilst practising and enjoying their own.
Concentrating on the Islamic debate, I believe that extremist Muslims present a huge threat to our country. In my own personal experience of teaching Muslims, I have found it is largely “their way or the highway” – in our own country! The women demand (probably their spouses demand) female teachers and single sex classes. If they do allow males in the class the door must be left open!
I would urge all of you who have misgivings about extremist Muslims and also those who think the western world is intolerant of Islam to read Khaled Hosseini's brutal but brilliant novel “A Thousand Splendid Suns”, about a woman's lot in Afghanistan. I would then dare any of you to support what is tolerated in the name of Allah.
Lastly, I would urge Gordon Brown and his politically correct government to put this once great Country first and his and his government's own personal ambitions second.
Enough is enough – calls to prayer – no! For God's sake can someone somewhere have a backbone before it really is too late.
Posted by Diane on January 6, 2008 3:29 PM
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We in the Netherlands needed two political murders to get beyond multiculturalism.
After two hundred deaths in London the Brits still do not realize that Islam is not a religion but a totalitarian ideology.
Posted by Hans on January 6, 2008 3:29 PM
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Bishop Nazir-Ali, may I congratulate you upon your bravery to speak out. It is high time that someone of your stature did.
Speaking right after his presentation at the CounterJihad Summit Brussels October 2007, Dr.Patrick Sookhdeo was interviewed by Pamela Geller. He spoke about the 1979 Arab Euro conference,
Dr.Sookhdeo: “..in which it was decided that Muslims should not integrate as individuals in society, but as communities. So they emphasized the development of Muslim communities, in other words they would become majorities in given areas, and then they would go to the next stage, which was to engage the political bodies in that area.
“If you had to deduce their strategy, over the past thirty years, it would be first the creation an Islamic consciousness, in other words the women wear hijab, everyone eats halal meat, those very basic things that give visibility to the Muslim community, they know who they are, and their sharia, their law becomes operative.
“And secondly, to create organizations within institutions, for example, the Islamic Women's society, an Islamic Leaders society, an Islamic Education society. Now, each of those societies sits down and works out its principles. It says what are our objectives, where do we want to go, how are we going to get there? How does Islam fit within this, and how does our law come in?
“Once they have that in place, they move to the third stage, which is to say to their local authority, 'that we have got lots of Muslim children in school, should not the school cater for our children, in terms of dress, in terms of Ramadan, in terms of food, in terms of education?' That says politically that, 'we are here, shouldn't we be a part of everything'?
“So what has happened as they have engaged the political structures at the local (unclear) national level so now that Islam has been accepted and brought into the center.”
Elsewhere (The Spectator, 2005) Sookhdeo wrote,
“The process of migrating and establishing a Muslim community in a non-Muslim context has an important place in Islamic theology. The word hijra is used to describe such a migration, in particular the migration of Muhammad and his followers in 622 AD from Mecca where they were persecuted to Medina where they established the first Islamic state. Eight years earlier another hijra had occurred when Muslim refugees found freedom of worship in the Christian kingdom of Abyssinia.
“Muslims see the establishment of a Muslim community in the UK as a
contemporary hijra. But an important question concerns which seventh
century hijra they compare it to: the hijra to Abyssinia in which the
Muslims became contented and loyal subjects of a Christian king or the hijra to Medina where they seized political and military power.
While the Muslim scholar Imtiaz Ahmed Hussain has indicated that he looks to
the Abyssinian model, many other Muslims seem to look to the Medinan model.
“A book published in 1980 by the Islamic Council of Europe gives instructions for how Muslim minorities are to work towards achieving domination of European countries through a policy of concentration in geographical areas….
“Two other Islamic principles are important subjects of debate amongst
contemporary Muslims. The first concerns “sacred space.” Islam is a
territorial religion. Any space once gained is considered sacred and should
belong to the umma for ever. Any lost space must be regained – even by force
if necessary. Migrant Muslim communities in the West are constantly engaged in sacralising new areas, first the inner private spaces of their homes and mosques, and latterly whole neighbourhoods (e.g. in
Birmingham) by means of marches and processions. So the ultimate end of
sacred space theology is autonomy for Muslims of the UK under Islamic law…”
Posted by BARZEL on January 6, 2008 3:27 PM
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Here's a quotation from Stephen Coughlin, the Pentagon's fired jihad expert (and the only Islamic Law scholar on the Joint Staff), via Andy Bostom's blog:
If the Enemy in the War on Terror (WOT) states that he fights jihad in furtherance of Islamic causes that include the imposition of Shari law and the re-establishment of the Caliphate; and Islamic law on jihad exists and is available in English; then Professionals with WOT responsibilities have an affirmative, personal, professional duty to know the enemy; that includes ALL the knowable facts associated with the law of jihad.
Absolutely. And the fact that this is not being done, for reasons of political correctness, imperils us all.
Posted by Mark on January 6, 2008 3:25 PM
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Many comments echoing similar concerns about islam and still too many who are unclear or ignorant to its goals and commands placed on its followers.
Please take the time to swat-up and understand what the U.K. truly faces.
link
link
Books…
The Sword of the Prophet – Trifcovic
Infidel – Ayaan Hirsi Ali
The Truth About Mohamed & Religion of Peace? – Spencer
America Alone – Steyn (purely for points on demographics of muslim populations in Europe vis-a-vis “native” Europeans)
Dvd/Movies…
Islam – What the West Needs to Know
Obsession
There are moderate muslims but Islam itself is not moderate. The contents of the Koran are “the immutable words of allah”, and so the ideology/religion is inherently resistant to change.
Support those who risk their lives by calling for a change within islam. Who call on all muslims to renounce all forms of jihad (faster & slower/violent and non-violent jihad) against all non-muslims. Jihad is a key principle within islam used to advance its supremacist goal of global dominion over all other religions and peoples in order to establish shar'ia law across the world.
Posted by Mark on January 6, 2008 3:18 PM
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Muslims are only peaceful until there are enough to start the takeover of the land they colonise. This is a religion invented by a man for the purposes of drawing power to himself. Just read the koran and you will see the massive contradictions it contains. Even mohammeds 9 year old child bride Aisha thought him a fraudster stating “Thy lord works in haste to do they bidding”, referring to the fact that he had previously been “told by god” that marrying your childrens wives was not permitted, until he wanted to marry Zainab, his sons wife, then he had another convenient vision where god changed his mind and decided you could marry your childrens wives.
Posted by David on January 6, 2008 3:18 PM
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I can still remember when the worst thing I read coming out of a Lanarshire village was a fight by some drunken miner. Now I read of someone arrested for making a bomb and plotting to blow up the people around him. THAT is how much this country has changed. Uf those clowns who bleat about the value of integration and multiculturism could only read a bit ,more and looked beyond the chattering classes who spout on TV and the radio about thre value of cheap foreign au pair would go and look more closely at the poor of this country aho are now having to compete with this insane mad influx. This is not Britain, certainly not the one I grew up in and my brother died for. Nor is it the one our troops in Iraq are dying for either. We;ve heard of Londonistan. How long can the British name survive?
Posted by Scotty on January 6, 2008 3:17 PM
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Many comments echoing similar concerns about islam and still too many who are unclear or ignorant to its goals and commands placed on its followers.
Please take the time to swat-up and understand what the U.K. truly faces.
link
link
Books…
The Sword of the Prophet – Trifcovic
Infidel – Ayaan Hirsi Ali
The Truth About Mohamed & Religion of Peace? – Spencer
America Alone – Steyn (purely for points on demographics of muslim populations in Europe vis-a-vis “native” Europeans)
Dvd/Movies…
Islam – What the West Needs to Know
Obsession
There are moderate muslims but Islam itself is not moderate. The contents of the Koran are “the immutable words of allah”, and so the ideology/religion is inherently resistant to change.
Support those who risk their lives by calling for a change within islam. Who call on all muslims to renounce all forms of jihad (faster & slower/violent and non-violent jihad) against all non-muslims. Jihad is a key principle within islam used to advance its supremacist goal of global dominion over all other religions and peoples in order to establish shar'ia law across the world.
Posted by Mark on January 6, 2008 3:12 PM
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Everybody clam down. So there are some areas in the country with majority muslim populations, big deal. There are parts of North London with Majority Jewish populations and parts of South London with majority African populations. That's just the way it is in a multi racial society you get some areas where the minority groups tend to congregate. As far as I can see muslims not putting up To Let signs in their areas that read 'No Whites or Christians' quite unlike the 60's when White folks used to put up such signs reading 'No dogs and blacks allowed'
To take offense at daily call to prayer is actually very sad and shows a lack of tolerance. Lets all just tr and leave in peac
Posted by Ben on January 6, 2008 3:12 PM
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Uncontrolled immigration has been imposed on UK citizens by Governments. People have never been given a voice or vote on the matter.
Posted by Brian on January 6, 2008 3:11 PM
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This country has always been a Christian country and currently holds many supporters of that, and i believe that we should stick to our traditions by law but allow others to carry out their beliefs without disruption to ours.
Posted by Bryan Boyle on January 6, 2008 3:11 PM
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“WE NEED A REFERENDUM NOW ON WHETHER TO STOP FURTHER IMMIGRATION”
I'm sorry, the elites simply can't allow that. The elites – both right and left – are busy preening their multicultural feathers and have no time for mere average citizens who would dare to demand a say in how the country develops. What cheeky little upstarts these citizens are! We'll show them! WE elites have our self image to worry about and all you selfish citizens can think of is your own well being. How typical.
Posted by Sam Gremal on January 6, 2008 3:10 PM
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Folks,
Its time to rattle some cages.
Democracy does not consist of just voting twice every decade.
We all have the responsibility to make our thoughts and fears known to our MPs, Govt Ministers, Police Chiefs etc etc.
START, WRITING to everyone you can think of, encourage friends and relative to do the same. If anyone is afraid of repercussions from the PC maniacs then just omit your address.
Look up adresses on the internet.
WRITE WRITE WRITE. for your country and the future of your children.
Posted by david on January 6, 2008 3:06 PM
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Over here on the other side of the pond, Ontario, Canada, the issue of granting Sharia Law was SHOT DOWN IN FLAMES as we in Canada realize that there is ONE RULE OF LAW for all Canadians… Canadian Law and not Sharia Law! Elected Britains had best get their collective heads out of that dark place and smarten up! Bob M
Posted by Bob M on January 6, 2008 3:06 PM
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Yes, I agree with bishop ali, in all what he said.
also the british should stand their ground. they should embrace their britishness, and also shouldn't be swayed by the muslim believers. is britain a christian country, or a muslim country. that's it.
Posted by molly on January 6, 2008 3:05 PM
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This is outrageous. It's all very well that Muslims live in the UK but they have to accept that Christianity is the domain religion throughout the isles and if they change the way we worship our God, and change the UK, then what's next? Other countries? It's true, the UK's immigration system is too relaxed, it needs to toughen up a bit. Like I said before, we're all for having different religions and cultures throughout the UK; it's good education, but why put a 'no-entry' sign to certain parts of the UK when it is OUR country? One message though and I hope that it doesn't cause any offence to other nationalities: if you don't like the way we have faith in our religion….go back to your own country!
Posted by Caroline on January 6, 2008 3:05 PM
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To the nay sayers do you remember the Bradford
riots. The millions of pounds worth of damage
was in both riots directed at white business,
small shops, Pubs,as well as larger concerns
were burnt out none of the damage was directed
at Muslim business and we now have a getto in
effect.The reality of the threats abuse and
violence is an every day occurance wether
walking or driving.I've even been told to sell my
home as I won't wont to live here in a few years
time.
Posted by Ted Warden on January 6, 2008 3:03 PM
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What is going on in this country when 60% of all immigration into UK outside of EU is Muslim and being supervised by our “goverment” I know 90% of UK will not believe it but is official statistis that is available under Freedom of information.
Posted by sid on January 6, 2008 3:02 PM
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This Bishop, as usual, has it spot on. It is a great shame that there are so few C of E Bishops who regularly take such balanced views as the Bishop of Rochester. We are a society whose laws are based on the Christian religion. This teaches us toleration. This in turn gives freedom within the law, but not outside it. Those who wish to live in our community should not be allowed so to do unless they accept that principle.
A sound knowledge of English language and the law of the land should be rigidly required and an understanding that a failure to abide by a legal ove and let live will incur deportation, (and I don care where they were born).
The sooner we restart teaching, especially to immigrant people, that life has responsibilities before rights, the sooner we will get back on the rails.
Ghettos are quite unacceptable whether religious or otherwise, especially where they presume to use different laws. That is not integration, but invasion.
Posted by George Haines on January 6, 2008 2:58 PM
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I hope it's not too late to add a bit here. To save time, as bulleted points:
Bishop Ali deserves our careful attention. I believe he knows what he's talking about and shouldn't be ridiculed for what are well considered – if controversial to some – opinions.
Islam isn't the Religion of Peace it would have us believe. You don't think so? Read more Islam.
The Qu'ran discourages integration: that is to say it discourages community with non-Muslims. (Jews are especially hated.)
Muslims in the UK have lured many into a false sense of comfort about what, to a disappointingly large proportion of that community, is a final Testament either to be embraced by all or imposed on all. We shouldn't be so taken in.
Islam should – must – come under the same critical scrutiny that all other philosophies, religions and political programmes now are subject to. No cordon sanitaire. Muslims will cry “Islamaphobia”; but…….they always do, so…..tough. We won't have it any other way.
The Christian churches ought to strengthen their Mission to Muslims. They should give especial support and comfort to those wishing to leave Islam (where apostacy is punishable by death). In other words, the Church, above all, should openly support freedom of conscience (as, indeed, endorsed by the Pope and the UN) and defend it accordingly.
Our civil law as pertaining to women and marriage should apply uncompromisingly to all communities – including Muslims.
Islamic hate literature should attract the same official disapproval and penalties as it would if the equivalent came from the NF or BNP. Islamofascism is a real phenomenon and deserves the sternest response. We can't pussyfoot around with this as we have been.
We should be just in our approach to Islam, but properly and objectively informed and determined to set it against the benchmark of what's in our national interests and congruent with our national identity and heritage. There's accordingly a limit to tolerance. Halt the concessions.
Forget making historical comparisons. Take Islam as it is. Consider what it says and what it does now. We can't mitigate this century's Islam with often distorted accounts (such as of the Crusades' causes and intentions; or of Islam's civilising triumphs and peaceful expansion) of past events.
Posted by sebastian on January 6, 2008 2:55 PM
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When your car is forceably stopped by Islamic youth, whilst policemen stand by – presumably in case someone reacts and says something not quite politically correct.
The reason they stopped my car, on a Friday afternoon in the middle of London, was so they can block the street to pray – despite the fact that there was a vast green space opposite (Stepney Green) and the huge East London Mosque is 5 minutes walk up the road!!
I believe they made their point to all the non muslims who have managed to hang on in the area.
Posted by john on January 6, 2008 2:51 PM
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So where are the police, surely this is tacism against the English population. Just imagine the howls from Islamic quarters if Christians or others adopted the same stance.
No wonder Muslims are increasingly marginalised.
Posted by Jim W on January 6, 2008 2:49 PM
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I would like to invite our true British cousins to leave the UK and come to the USA where you will be welcome, and I'm certain, feel much more at home. Fortunately the multicultural mechanisms are not as deeply entrenched here as in Europe. Your arrival in numbers will help us keep it that way.
Posted by Bob Sloggin on January 6, 2008 2:49 PM
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Let the people decide.
WE NEED A REFERENDUM NOW ON WHETHER TO STOP FURTHER IMMIGRATION.
Write to your MP, call radio phone-ins, circulate emails – do anything you can to put this into the centre of British politics and dont let it go by default.
Calling for a referendum is non-racist, and referendum supporters are not racists or prejudiced. We are not making any comment on the desired outcome, just on the requirement to let the people have a say on this most important of issues.
Posted by Robert on January 6, 2008 2:47 PM
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Let the people decide.
WE NEED A REFERENDUM NOW ON WHETHER TO STOP FURTHER IMMIGRATION.
Write to your MP, call radio phone-ins, circulate emails – do anything you can to put this into the centre of British politics and dont let it go by default.
Calling for a referendum is non-racist, and referendum supporters are not racists or prejudiced. We are not making any comment on the desired outcome, just on the requirement to let the people have a say on this most important of issues.
Posted by Robert on January 6, 2008 2:47 PM
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We are heading towards a civil war in this country.
And we, I am letting it happen by doing nothing.
Moaning about it on forrums is going to sort nothing!
Posted by Scott Morris on January 6, 2008 2:47 PM
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I AGREE WITH TAFFY KHAN. MOST OF THE VIEWS ON THIS SITE ARE RACIST. THE VIEW BELOW IS EXCELLENT. I AM WHITE AND MY NEIGHBOURS ARE MUSLIM- THEY TREAT ME SO WELL, WHEN MY 'CHRISTIAN' NEIGHBOURS WOULDNT KNOW IF I WAS DEAD!!! WE NEED ISLAMIC CHARACTER IN THIS COUNTRY TO SAVE IT FROM OUR SELFISH, UNCARING, ELDERLY PEOPLE REJECTION, DISRESPECTING YOUTH, BINGE DRINKING, WOMAN EXPOLITING AND PAEDOPHILLIC AND SICK SOCIETY. PLEASE ISLAM COME TO BRITAIN AND MAKE US THE STRONGEST COUNTRY ON EARTH. GOD BLESS BRITANNIA FOR ISLAM AS OUR SAVIOUR. AMEN.
Archbishop Nazir Ali has made very serious comments against muslims yet again,he appears to show little understanding of his country people.When he makes such judgements relating to ignorance,hatred and bias;I feel he is only the product of his own country,insomuch as he is the Christian version of the same Muslim Radicals in his country.
When I see the words Alien Faith I recall how early Christians felt when they were in Pagan Britain, they too,brought an alien faith.Jesus was a brown man,ate with his hands(no fork).He did not eat pork,his women covered their heads,they washed after defecating unlike modern Christians,they slaughtered their animals same as Muslims do etc. I truly beleive that when Jesus returns he would feel more comfortable in a Muslim house, because I'm afraid that Christians today (in general)would be a true shame upon the Way of Jesus.
As for intergrating,well! what a joke!the White Man,never intergrated anywhere. You have British Communities in Spain today,and when Brits went to India,they would be chastised if they went 'native'. They lived in cantonments and put up churches with bells to call for prayer,looked down upon asians and put up signs saying.NO DOGS NO INDIANS etc.
There's lots more to say,but for now think about this,Mr Nazir Ali has an Islamic name and is a Christian he says,well,if Islam is alien then why has he got an alien surname.Mr Nazir Ali is the product of the same bias that exists in his country in the form of radacilism.Same is to be said about radical British Muslims,they are a product of British bigotry and ignorance.They too are a product of U.K. society,just like British football hooligans.So before Nazir Ali opens his mouth again he should look in the mirror.
Posted by John Phillps on January 6, 2008 2:47 PM
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What is necessary is a 'no-faith' agenda – as the graphic shows, less than 5 million have a religious membership. We should ignore people like Mr. Nazir Ali who seems to be demanding a national(ist) affirmation of christianinty, we need to fully spearate all religion from the state – and stop pandering to minorities, especially theists of any persuasion!
Posted by Mikemmp on January 6, 2008 2:45 PM
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Let's see, you Brits have been disarmed; more public video cameras than any nation on Earth; a controlled news media; unrestricted immigration; a population control grid now in place; major religions being set against each other.
You Brits have got to learn that national sovereignty is bad and global government is good! The Antichrist should be along any time to slap the “mark of the beast” on you in order to buy and sell.
Dwayne
Provo, Utah, USA
Posted by Dwayne Austin on January 6, 2008 2:41 PM
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The country is Church of England and always will be,if the Islamics dont like it let them go back to to there own Country.
Living here is a privalage and not there right.
religeon is based on personal practice and nothing else,and should not interfere with the policy identity or character of the united Kingdom,and people will not tolerate
radicals trying to change our way of life,why are they not returning to other Islamic Countries who tolerate them!!!we no that answer.
Posted by Bill Badger on January 6, 2008 2:39 PM
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All religion is crap – modern people should have the intelligence to not need it.
But Islam is the worst – it has no place in a modern, liberal, western culture like the UK. I live in a town with a huge asian/muslim/immigrant population and the changes these people have wrought have destroyed the culture and community of the town where I have spent over 50 yrs of my life.
The town is a shadow of itself with a council dominated by either asians, people of asian descent or white apologists who suck up to them because their job/place on the gravy train depend on continuing support from the asian community – and this includes our MP who doesn't live here but kisses asian arse like his life depends on it.
I say outlaw islam in the uk. Stop any more islamaniacs entering this country. In fact stop religious education of all faiths in schools. That works in France and they are a much more religious nation than we are.
Do not allow the building of any more mosques. Allow no muslim schools or education of any kind. If people want to be muslims, let them move to Iran.
I was a life long labour voter but switched to the BNP a few years ago.
They may be too extreme for some taste s but at least they choose to listen to the undercurrents of dissent and realise that not one white person in this country really and truly likes asians, muslims, immigrants or the UK's policy on immigration.
Blood will flow on our streets. I wish it could be my generation who will fight the war to reclaim our country but it will be my grandchildren who will have to fight that war.
My grandfathers fought imperialism, my father fought fascism — it looks like my grandsone will have to fight Islamism.
Posted by Charlemagne on January 6, 2008 2:34 PM
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I do hope the good bishop has paid serious attention to his personal security arrangements.
Posted by Craic of Scapegoat Hill on January 6, 2008 2:31 PM
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Some one should remind the government that Christianity is the system which best respects freedom and supports a multicultural society. Pandering to extremism of any form in our society discourages freedom. Perhaps he should view it from a financial point of view. No go areas will also decrease business interests and growht in that area.
Posted by Julie Prince on January 6, 2008 2:27 PM
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I think Bishop Nazir – Ali is actually missing the point.
The problem in the UK over the past two decades has been the increasing secularisation / “dereligionising” of Christianity in the UK. I remember when shops were always closed on Christmas Day and Boxing Day, when a lot more people went to Church etc.
The fear the Bishop Nazir – Ali and others within the Church have is that there are a far greater proportion of muslims who pray and are religious (please note – this doesn't mean they are extremist) than there are “practising Christians” as we move more in Britain towards the religion of materialism.
Bishop Nazir – Ali's comments smack of defensiveness as he erroneously blames immigrants for the Church's lack of progress in making ordinary Britons realise what the Church has to offer.
He would be better advised to meet the British youth who are so disenfranchised from the Church and try to find methods to bring them back into the fold rather than attacking immigrants.
After all, immigrants from “Christian” countries are more religious than most British people who are born Christian.
Posted by Mohammad Khan on January 6, 2008 2:25 PM
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Re post by Arthur Kellar, 10.38 am: Sir, what you stated is true, but that doesn help in the here and now. Most of my family still reside in Ireland, and as you know, Ireland did not loot or exploit other nations, yet Ireland is now also faced with creeping Islam-ism, who makes the usual demands of the Educational, Monetary, Social and Religious variety, yet have lived in the country for 5 minutes. But these people are making demands from an Irish public who owe them less than nothing. Last year, a group of Muslims from Afghanistan took over a Cathedral in Dublin to make the demand that they be allowed to stay legally in the country. This went on for days with these bastards desecrating a house of God, threatening to hang themselves and their children from the rafters should their request be turned down, with the police, ambulance service, social workers, and a myriad of other health and welfare department services at the ready to deal with the situation. Yet in Dublin, there are several Mosques they could have carried out this sacrilege in, so why didn they? Because you and I and most readers know that if they tried any such BS in a Mosque, the adherents to that eligion of Peace would themselves have strung the lot of them up on those same rafters. It is not only in the UK that they are allowed to run the show, it is globally, because the majority of decent people are in fear of a backlash against them should they voice an opinion contrary to that which our fearless leaders dictate we must have, or else we face being branded a racist! God forbid we are tagged with such a word, yet these Muslims have no qualms whatsoever treating us in a racist manner, and I defy you to name for me one case where someone of that faith was dragged before the law to explain their reverse racism. If such a case exists, I am unaware of it. As for Oxford being subjected to a call to prayer 5 times a day over a P.A system: if that is allowed to go through, then I fear all is lost and you must look to yourself to find another country to live in, as it is more than obvious that this putrid left wing government in power is completely worthless.
Posted by Maura Collins. on January 6, 2008 2:22 PM
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Interesting graph from the Christian Research newspaper, showing relative membership in different religions. The graph shows .89 million Muslims, whereas there are actually 1.6 million. However, my point is that the total of all faiths added up to less than 10% of the total population, of which the most important group are the secularists (not to be confused with sectarianists).
In an age of reason and education it never ceases to amaze me that such a fuss is made over the dead representatives of imaginary gods. Time to grow up, folks: abandon the cults, and do your own thinking.
Posted by Tony R on January 6, 2008 2:20 PM
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The words of Jesus best answer this, in Matthew 24 Jesus says “Watch out that no-one deceives you. For many will come in my name, claiming to be The Christ and will deceive many. You will hear of wars and rumours of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed. Such things must happen, but the end as still to come. Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines and earthquakes in various places. All these are the beginning of birthpains. Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me.” (This is the reason for the hatred of bible believers and doctrinal traditions, it is because of Jesus who is the stumbling block to the world and the rock of offence). “At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate one another and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of many will grow cold, but he who stands firm till the end will be saved”. This is so apparent in our world today and my prayer is that people will again turn back to The Lord Jesus and commit their lives to Him. Remember that God loves you all, but He cannot help you if you harden your hearts and reject the only path to salvation through Jesus Christ.
Posted by Brian Andrews on January 6, 2008 2:18 PM
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I am a Chinese immigrant. I came to this beautiful English country 19 years ago. I married a Yorkshire man and fully integraged into the English society. I love the English way of life. However, my fear has grown along side with the obvious Islamification over the years. Islam is the only religion which will never integrate with any other societies and cultures. I don't understand why this Government welcome the muslims to this beautiful English country.
Posted by Li Lifei on January 6, 2008 2:16 PM
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